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Quran, Code 19 and Rashad Khalifa
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Saleena



Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wa-Alaikum Salaam Arnold,

My apologies for not being sufficiently clear on two points:

1) When I said 'I', it was only meant as 'I, the layman' (not 'I, trying to be a mathematician'). There is no doubt that you have studied this subject and are more knowledgable than perhaps anyone else on the board about it.

2) I did not say there was no code; there may well be a code, though for the time being the 19 code is still under debate even among those who do understand it well. That is what I meant when I said that the code does not sufficiently convince - right now. As you rightly said, this is something for humanity to discover in the long run. It's just that many Muslims are concerned that a similar effort with the Bible is being imitated in some quarters with regards to the Quran, for reasons other than simply the pursuit of Truth. This falls outside of the realm of academic pursuit and into the realm of what some would call mischief-making.

By the way, I only got the impression that the author of the articles you linked me with was not in support of the code from his statement towards the end:

"... there is not one shred of evidence that has been presented on how 19 preserves the text. In-fact, as can be seen in the research of this paper, the opposite is the case as simply removing 1 letter from a chapter creates chaos in the count and causes us to return to the original text for verification."

I admit I had slightly misread him the first time (sorry). He meant that the research is not yet complete, one way or another. He was mainly criticising Dr Khalifa's approach.

As long as Muslims are agreed on the integrity of the Message (and you also have indicated this in your last post) then all other disagreements are relatively unimportant. I only asked for your further clarification and described my (layman) position so that others who may read this thread would not be misled either way.

And thank you Ahmed Mateen for the extra link.
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salaam brother,

1. Are you assuming that quran can be corrupted? And we can check by the code if corrupted or not?

A: No, but I believe we can use it as a verification method, so the claim of not being corrupted can be backed up by scientifical evidence next to the Arabic flow of recitation and the historical evidence.

2. What if using the code we find quran is corrupted?

A: I do not believe this will be so. As till now, this has not come forward in the research, not all even. The truth of the Quran keeps coming forward that its Message has been uncorrupted for 1400 years.

3. Rashad also found two verses as false based on his code!

This was his interpretation based on the Hafs count, interpretation of Hadith and History. Many other studies have shown the 2 verses do belong there. And Rashad never believed other verses were corrupted, in all of his personal research, onyl two did not fit his counts.

So statistically, this is a very good result. But he made many mistakes in many counts, so the research must be ongoing.

4. And also how could we know, using the code, if some chapters or verses have not been removed from the quran already?

Inner structure and other results as for example the many times Rahman, Raheem, Allah and so on is used. If there were any removed, then this count would have been corrupted immediately.

5. If nothing can be removed and added in the quran 15:9, then what is the use of the code?

Since the Quran wants everything to be testable, God in His Grace even gave proof to show His Scripture has a solid structure we can verify.

This is all it does in my view. A verification method, so the belief in the uncorrupted Quran moves from faith into conviction through evidence, this is the true meaning of Mumin.
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salaam Saleena,

No worries, I'm glad you understand my approach now. And yes, the author, Layth Shaiban, mainly critizes Rashad's approach as do I.

These type of things have nothign to do with the Message, but with science, and how the Quran again confronts not only the Sociologist, the Psychiatrist, the Politician, the Economist, the Theologist, but again the Scientist. Again and Again...

Here is a very simple and small presentation of what we know is true on mathematical correlation sin the Quran:

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_01.html

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_02.html

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_03.html

These qualities have not been found in any other scripture, certianly not on this high mathematical level and in consistency.
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Saleena



Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wa-Alaikum Salaam Arnold,

Thank you for the links. I am downloading them to read now and for future reference.

Your posts have been most helpful - thanks again.
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Ahmed Mateen



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salaam Arnold,

Arnold Yasin Mol wrote:

Here is a very simple and small presentation of what we know is true on mathematical correlation sin the Quran:

These qualities have not been found in any other scripture, certianly not on this high mathematical level and in consistency.

From this I assume you have confirmed the information in the links you provided. I started with the first link and checked the following:

Quote:
"Day (yawm)" is repeated 365 times in singular form, while its plural and dual forms "days (ayyam and yawmayn)" together are repeated 30 times. The number of repetitions of the word "month" (shahar) is 12. http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_01.html

According to that:

Days singular+dual+plural = 365+30 = 395

The word "MONTH" = 12

This is what I've found:
----------------------------------------
No. Cnt Linked Words

5 - بيوم
23 - واليوم
1 - واياما
1 - وباليوم
44 - ويوم
2 - الايام
41 - اليوم
20 - ايام
3 - اياما
1 - بايام
8 - فاليوم
8 - ليوم
217 - يوم
16 - يوما
5 - يومكم
5 - يومهم
3 - يومي

Days singular+dual+plural = 403

I have yet to check the singular, dual and plural occurances seperately...

http://www.textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=%D9%8A%D9%88%D9%85%D8%A7




Shahar "month" (singular) = 9, (dual) = 2

Shahar "months" (plural) = 10

http://www.textinmotion.com/words.jsp?word=%D8%B4%D9%87%D8%B1

So far I could only check the days and months and found the difference, would you please correct what did I miss..........

Thanks
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salaam brother,

Yes, I have checked most references. Here is one list of the occurence of Yauwme and Shahr, and by the way, this doesn't mean at all the word can only mean 'Day' just because it is used 365 times. I believe these occurences are only for the inner structure verification. Many researchers agree with me on this.

If we search the Quran from its beginning to its end we will see that the singular form of the word “SHaHR” (month) occurs exactly 12 times. Below is the list of chapters and verses where the word “SHaHR” (month) occurs.

1. 2:185
2. 2:185
3. 2:194
4. 2:194
5. 2:217
6. 5:2
7. 5:97
8. 9:36
9. 34:12
10. 34:12
11. 46:15
12. 97:3


YWM(day) 365
YWM-KUM (your day) 5
YWM-HUM (their day) 5
YWM-AYN (two days) 3
AYYAAM (days) 27
YWM-EZEN (that day) 70
475 (19x25)


1 1:4
2 2:8
3 2:48
4 2:62
5 2:85
6 2:113
7 2:123
8 2:126
9 2:174
10 2:177
11 2:212
12 2:228
13 2:232
14 2:249
15 2:254
16 2:259
17 2:259
18 2:264
19 2:281
20 3:9
21 3:25
22 3:30
23 3:55
24 3:77
25 3:106
26 3:114
27 3:155
28 3:161
29 3:166
30 3:180
31 3:185
32 3:194
33 4:38
34 4:39
35 4:59
36 4:87
37 4:109
38 4:136
39 4:141
40 4:159
41 4:162
42 5:3
43 5:3
44 5:5
45 5:14
46 5:36
47 5:64
48 5:69
49 5:109
50 5:119
51 6:12
52 6:15
53 6:22
54 6:73
55 6:73
56 6:93
57 6:128
58 6:141
59 6:158
60 7:14
61 7:32
62 7:51
63 7:53
64 7:59
65 7:163
66 7:163
67 7:167
68 7:172
69 8:41
70 8:41
71 8:48
72 9:3
73 9:18
74 9:19
75 9:25
76 9:29
77 9:35
78 9:36
79 9:44
80 9:45
81 9:77
82 9:99
83 9:108
84 10:15
85 10:28
86 10:45
87 10:60
88 10:92
89 10:93
90 11:3
91 11:8
92 11:26
93 11:43
94 11:60
95 11:77
96 11:84
97 11:98
98 11:99
99 11:103
100 11:103
101 11:105
102 12:54
103 12:92
104 14:18
105 14:31
106 14:41
107 14:42
108 14:44
109 14:48
110 15:35
111 15:36
112 15:38
113 16:25
114 16:27
115 16:27
116 16:63
117 16:80
118 16:80
119 16:84
120 16:89
121 16:92
122 16:111
123 16:124
124 17:13
125 17:14
126 17:52
127 17:58
128 17:62
129 17:71
130 17:97
131 18:19
132 18:19
133 18:47
134 18:52
135 18:105
136 19:15
137 19:15
138 19:15
139 19:26
140 19:33
141 19:33
142 19:33
143 19:37
144 19:38
145 19:38
146 19:39
147 19:85
148 19:95
149 20:59
150 20:64
151 20:100
152 20:101
153 20:102
154 20:104
155 20:124
156 20:126
157 21:47
158 21:104
159 22:2
160 22:9
161 22:17
162 22:47
163 22:55
164 22:69
165 23:16
166 23:65
167 23:100
168 23:111
169 23:113
170 23:113
171 24:2
172 24:24
173 24:37
174 24:64
175 25:14
176 25:17
177 25:22
178 25:25
179 25:26
180 25:27
181 25:69
182 26:38
183 26:82
184 26:87
185 26:88
186 26135
187 26:155
188 26:156
189 26:189
190 26:189
191 27:83
192 27:87
193 28:41
194 28:42
195 28:61
196 28:62
197 28:65
198 28:71
199 28:72
200 28:74
201 29:13
202 29:25
203 29:36
204 29:55
205 30:12
206 30:14
207 30:43
208 30:55
209 30:56
210 30:56
211 31:33
212 32:5
213 32:25
214 32:29
215 33:21
216 33:44
217 33:66
218 34:30
219 34:40
220 34:42
221 35:14
222 36:54
223 36:55
224 36:59
225 36:64
226 36:65
227 37:20
228 37:21
229 37:26
230 37:144
231 38:16
232 38:26
233 38:53
234 38:78
235 38:79
236 38:81
237 39:13
238 39:15
239 39:24
240 39:31
241 39:47
242 39:60
243 39:67
244 40:15
245 40:16
246 40:16
247 40:17
248 40:17
249 40:18
250 40:27
251 40:29
252 40:30
253 40:32
254 40:33
255 40:46
256 40:49
257 40:51
258 40:52
259 41:19
260 41:40
261 41:47
262 42:7
263 42:45
264 42:47
265 43:39
266 43:65
267 43:68
268 44:10
269 44:16
270 44:40
271 44:41
272 45:27
273 45:26
274 45:27
275 45:28
276 45:34
277 45:35
278 46:5
279 46:20
280 46:21
281 46:34
282 46:35
283 50:20
284 50:22
285 50:30
286 50:34
287 50:41
288 50:42
289 50:42
290 50:44
291 51:12
292 51:13
293 52:9
294 52:13
295 52:46
296 54:6
298 54:8
299 54:19
300 54:48
301 55:29
302 56:50
303 56:56
304 57:12
305 57:12
306 57:13
307 57:15
308 58:6
309 58:7
310 58:18
311 58:22
312 60:3
313 60:6
314 62:9
315 64:9
316 64:9
317 64:9
318 65:2
319 66:7
320 66:8
321 68:24
322 68:39
323 68:42
324 69:35
325 70:4
326 70:8
327 70:26
328 70:43
329 70:44
330 73:14
331 73:17
332 74:9
333 74:46
334 75:1
335 75:6
336 76:7
337 76:10
338 76:11
339 76:27
340 77:12
341 77:13
342 77:14
343 77:35
344 77:38
345 78:17
346 78:18
347 78:38
348 78:39
349 78:40
350 79:6
351 79:35
352 79:46
353 80:34
354 82:15
355 82:17
356 82:18
357 82:19
358 83:5
359 83:6
360 83:11
361 83:34
362 85:2
363 86:9
364 90:14
365 101:4
é



Dunya (this world/That which is in reach/Instant gains) 115 times
Akhirah (hereafter/tomorrow/future) 115 times
Shaytan (satan/that which is far away from God) 88 times
Malak (Universal Forces/angels) 88 times
Zulm (oppression) 15 times
Qist (justice) 15 times
Qalu (they said) 332 times
Qul (say) 332 times
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abshoeb



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assalamlikum Respected Brothers and Sisters

Most of exponents of Quran efforts remain misdirected except few. And yet Most of people think that they (exponents) did good work. And (exponents) they worked in the wrong cause, contrary to the purpose of Divine Reminder). I Think Rashad Qalifa too one of them. If he had pondered these verses he could have done well. I am surprised Rashad Qalifa being Arab how come he missed books written by Ahmad Amin Such Fajaral Islam. If he had read I don’t think he could have gone wrong direction.


Carries own evidence

29:49 Nay, but this consists of Messages clear to the hearts of all who are gifted with the knowledge of discretion. And none could knowingly reject Our Messages except such as would relegate the Truth.
29:47 And thus it is! We have bestowed this Book upon you (O Prophet). And many of those whom We gave the previous Scriptures will come to believe in it. (5:4Cool. Also, many of your people will believe in it. And none could knowingly reject Our Messages except such as would deny an obvious Truth.

Book fully consistent within itself.

39:23 Allah has now revealed the best HADITH, a Book fully consistent within itself. It marks out both ways (to success and failure) repeating its Messages in diverse forms. Herewith shiver the skins of those who have some idea of the Glory of their Lord, and then, their skins and their hearts soften at Allah's Reminder. This is the Guidance of Allah, and with it He guides him who seeks guidance. Whereas he who follows a path that Allah has declared to be wrong, goes astray and he cannot find a guide. (4:88, 15:87).



4:82 Will they not then, try to understand this Qur’an? If it were from other than Allah they would surely have found in it much contradiction.
6:19 Say (O Messenger), "What could be the greatest witness?” Say, “Allah is Witness between me and you. This Qur’an has been revealed to me so that I may warn you as well as whomever it reaches. Do you bear witness that there are other deities besides Allah?” Say, “I bear no such witness.” Say, “He is the One God. I disown what you associate with Him.”

Cannot be produce by other than Divine agency.

2:23 (For the real skeptic We have a reason friendly offer.) If you are still in doubt concerning that which We have revealed unto Our servant (Muhammad), call and set up (a committee, commission, organization, association of the highest order) all your helpers besides Allah, and then produce just one Surah like this, if you are men of Truth.
10:38 Or, do they say, “He has invented it?” Tell them, "Bring one Surah like this and call for help everyone you can besides Allah, if you are truthful.” (2:23, 11:13). (One chapter like this in beauty, eloquence and wisdom. And “besides Allah” would mean, without copying phrases and sentences from the Qur’an).

11:13 Or they assert, “He has invented it.” Say to them, "Then bring a portion of Surahs like this, invented, and call on everyone you can besides Allah, if you are truthful!" (Or produce one Surah like this 2:23, 10:3Cool.
17:89 We have used TASREEF to explain The Qur’an in many facets for mankind. However, most people (due to arrogance, prejudice or blind following) remain ungrateful by rejecting such Clear Guidance. (17:41).

God revelation

6:92 And this Qur’an is the Blessed Book that We have sent down, confirming the Divine Origin of what was revealed before it, that you (O Prophet) may warn the Central Town, Makkah, and places around it. (From this Center, the Message will fan out 6:90, 12:104). Those who believe in (the Law of Recompense) the Hereafter, accept this Book as a comprehensive Guide. And they will establish the Divine System.
7:105 It is incumbent upon me that I say about God nothing but the Truth. I come to you with clear evidence of the Truth from your Lord. So let the Children of Israel go with me.”

27:6 Surely, you are receiving the Qur'an from the Presence of One Wise, Aware

45:2 The Revelation of the Book is from Allah, the Mighty, the Wise.
follow it and walk aright

6:155 And now this Qur’an is the Blessed Book that We have revealed. So follow it and walk aright so that you attain Mercy (and your human potential is guaranteed development, like a fetus grows in the mother’s womb).

Book of wisdom

10:1 A.L.R. Alif. Laam. RA. Allah Aleem the Knower, Raheem the Merciful, announces that these are the Verses of a Book that is full of Wisdom.

In Arabic

12:2 Behold, We have sent it down in all clarity, in the Arabic tongue, so that you might encompass it with your reason.

Described

13:31 Our Law precludes the possibility that a Lecture would move the mountains, tear the earth asunder, or make the dead speak. (The Qur’an is intended to move hearts, not mountains 6:7, 6:25, 6:112, 15:14-15, 17:90-93). Nay, all Decree belongs to Allah. Do not the believers know that if Allah had Willed, He could have guided all mankind (by not giving them free will 10:100)? As for the rejecters of the Divine Laws, disasters will not cease to strike them for their deeds, even close to their homes until the Promise of Allah comes to pass. Verily, Allah never fails in His Promise. (Mankind will keep devising various political systems in search for the best. Those systems will keep collapsing and they will keep suffering far and close to their homes. Then, ultimately, they will realize that the Qur’an offers the solutions to all the problems facing humanity 41:53, 51:20-21).

13:36 Hence, they unto whom We have given the Book rejoice in what is revealed to you (O Prophet). But among the groups that follow other creeds, there are such who deny some of it. (They even preach that some of the verses have been abrogated, or that they have a hidden meaning!) Say, “I am commanded only that I serve Allah and associate none with Him. Unto Him I invite all mankind, and He is my goal.”
13:37 Thus, We have revealed it, a Decisive Authority in Arabic. (O Prophet), indeed if you got influenced by people’s likes and dislikes after the Knowledge has come to you, you will have no protector or savior against Allah.

56:77 That this Qur’an is, indeed, a Noble Monograph.
56:78 In a well-guarded Book. (As conveyed to you).
56:79 The Book which none but the pure of mind can touch. (Those who approach the Qur'an with minds contaminated with preconceived notions and extrinsic material, will never understand it).

14:1 A.L.R. Alif. Laam. Ra. Allah Aleem the Knower, Raziq the Provider. A Divine Writ is this that We have revealed to you (O Prophet). So that you may bring forth all mankind, by their Sustainer’s leave, out of darkness into Light. On to the Way that leads to the Almighty, the Owner of all praise. (14:5, 33:43).

Make things clear.

15:1 A.L.R. Allah, Aleem the Knower, Raziq the Provider. These are Messages of Revelation, of a discourse clear in itself and clearly showing the Truth. This is Qur’an, a plain reading and a Revelation that explains itself.

25:33 And no question, objection or half-truth do they bring to you but We convey to you the Absolute Truth with excellent explanation. (We reveal to you the best TAFSEER, the explanation of the Qur’an from within itself).

26:2 Now these are verses of the Final Statute Book, clear in itself and clearly showing the Truth.

27:1 T.S. Toor-e-Sina, Mount Sinai. (The initiation of Revelation to Moses, and now), These are Messages of the Qur'an, the Book clear in itself and clearly showing the Truth.

28:2 Now these are Messages of the Book clear in itself and it makes things clear.

36:69 (Know about the Prophet that) We have not taught him poetry, nor is it meet for his dignity. This is no less than a Divine Reminder and an Articulate Qur’an clear in itself and clearly showing the Way. (26:224).

36:70 That it may warn everyone who is alive of heart and that the Word may prove True concerning the rejecters. (That violation of the Divine Laws brings Requital in both lives).

43:2 Witness to itself is this Scripture that is clear in itself and shows the Truth clearly.

Dismembering the Qur’an

15:91 Now those who cause division and sectarianism after (this Revelation), will be seen as dismembering the Qur’an.

Purpose of revelation.

16:64 And upon you (O Prophet) We have revealed this Book so that you may clearly explain to people the reality of those things in which they differ (and thus help them become one community). And this Book is a Guidance and Mercy for people who will believe.

16:65 (This Divine Writ has the power to revive the intellectually dead, and those who are going through a life unlived. The likeliness of the Qur’an is that) Allah sends down water from the sky, giving life thereby to the earth after it had been lifeless. Herein, behold, is a message for those who hear and listen.

Good news and warning

17:9 Verily, this Qur’an guides to what is most upright, and gives good news of a great reward to those who accept it, and benefit the creation.
17:10 And that for those who disbelieve in the life to come, We have readied grievous suffering.

Attitude of Prejudiced.

17:45 The prejudiced among them approach you with a closed mind when you convey the Qur’an to them (17:41). Since they believe not in the life to come, they are preoccupied with immediate gains only. And their attitude causes Our Law to create a hidden (psychological) barrier between you and them. (Many people would rather embark upon a journey without a road map).

17:46 It is Allah’s Law that people who do not use their faculties, lose them. Their minds, hearts, and ears act impermeable when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur’an. And, they turn their backs in disgust. (They wish to hear about other deities and false ‘authorities’).
Qur’an the cure of all ills of humanity.

17:82 Thus, step by step, We have sent down in the Qur’an the cure of all ills of humanity. It is a Mercy for those who accept it. At the same time, it is a harbinger of loss for the oppressors (since it liberates the oppressed from their grasp). ['Zalimin' in this context = Oppressors = Those who displace the Qur'an from its rightful position of Authority]
used TASREEF to explain The Qur’an in many facets for mankind.

17:89 We have used TASREEF to explain The Qur’an in many facets for mankind. However, most people (due to arrogance, prejudice or blind following) remain ungrateful by rejecting such Clear Guidance. (17:41).
17:90 (Instead of reflecting on it, they keep demanding physical miracles) saying, “We will not believe in you until you cause a spring to gush forth from the earth.”

18:54 Indeed, for the benefit of mankind We use TASREEF to explain the Qur’an from various vantage points. However, man, above all other imperfections, is given to contention.

39:27 And, indeed, We have explained this Qur'an to mankind with all kinds of requisite examples so that they might reflect and understand.

A Perfect Book, unerringly straight flawless.

18:1 All beauty and balance in the Universe is the living evidence that Allah is Praiseworthy. Praise be to Allah who has revealed this Book to His servant, and made it flawless.

18:2 A Perfect Book, unerringly straight, meant to warn people of the destructive results of their wrongdoings. And to give good news to those who believe in the Message and make reforms in their individual and collective lives, that theirs shall be a generous Reward.

Qur’an easy to understand

54:17 And indeed, We have made the Qur’an easy to understand. Then, is there any who will learn?

19:97 And only to this end We have made this (Qur'an) easy to understand in your own tongue (O Prophet). That you might convey thereby glad news to the righteous and warn people given to futile contention.

Expounding the Truth for all mankind.

39:41 Behold, (O Prophet) We have revealed unto you this Book expounding the Truth for all mankind. Then whoever chooses to see the roadway is guided for his own good. And whoever chooses to be lost, he strays only to his own detriment. Neither are you a custodian over them, nor do you have power to determine their fate. (Wakeel = Advocate, guardian, warder, warden, defender, watcher, responsible, accountable).

No falsehood can ever approach it openly or in stealth

41:42 No falsehood can ever approach it openly or in stealth - a Revelation from all Wise, Owner of Praise.


Seeking earnestly to understand

47:24 Will they not then reflect on the Qur’an, or is it that they have locks on their hearts (which bar them from reason 4:82)?

Reminder and giver of eminence to all mankind

81:27 This Message is no less than a Reminder and giver of eminence to all mankind

(Inscribed) upon Tablet Imperishable

85:21 Nay, but this is Sublime Qur'an.
85:22 (Inscribed) upon Tablet Imperishable.

[Allah Himself guards it against corruption. It is preserved in minds and hearts in addition to parchment and paper, and its Laws are indelibly inscribed in the Book of Nature 15:9, 56:78. Interestingly, 85:22 is unique in using ‘Lauh-im-Mahfuz’, the Imperishable Tablet, for the Qur’an. Elsewhere it relates to the Divine Database about the Universe.]

15:9 Behold, it is We Ourselves Who have sent down this Reminder, and behold, it is We Who shall truly guard it. (6:116).

But………

25:30 And the Messenger will say, “O my Lord! These are my people, the ones who had disabled and made this Qur'an of no account." (MAHJUR = They had immobilized it like villagers who bind a cow by tying her front foot to her horn).


Ali Bin Ali Alharbi (Al Madina)
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salaam Abshoeb!

Yes, one of the biggest mistakes of Rashad Khalifa, was that he approached the Quran as a religious book, not as a Constitution of Deen. Sadly, because of this, he made many many wrong interpretations and approaches.
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UmeAimon



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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Location: UAE

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asalam o Elikom All,

I came directly to the issue I left and I hope to be clearer this time. Dear brother Arnold so nice of you again for the response but I think you misunderstood me. Dearest my post was for code nineteen people and I am not against any kind of research done anywhere. That will be going against my own self Smile. My problem is with the direction it is taking and you agreed to it.

I also got a little anxious when I read your post where you made the point that it would be helpful to know how Quran was preserved specially for the younger generation and help them find the correct one or the preserved one. I beg to disagree as this would be questioning Allah’s promise to protect this book as the promise doesn’t just mean saving and hiding it somewhere and I am sure there is a lot more than just code 19 arrangement for it’s perseverance. Plus it sounds as if Quran needs our discovery to be able to convince people of its divinity and THAT is not the case I am sure you will agree.
The Quran will stay guidance for all mankind and timeless with or without any discovery! Also I think we should not try to be part of something Allah Has taken upon Himself. Because that is NOT what HE wants from us does He? There is some reason why He took this task unto Himself!

I am definitely not against any research in fact I think Quran has provided us with so many scientific hints that we need to research on. I consider 19 sequence in some parts of Quran as one of them, since Maths is a basis for so many sciences after all and a science itself. We need to research/work on it, but how we go about it… this is where we muddle up and tend to steer from the path. Any detail of such knowledges should be gained from sources extrinsic to Quran... other wise we will be wasting our times because all the verses that demand immediate attention, detail study from WITHIN Quran and submission and Salat, are clear cut and direct. THAT is what Allah is saying in verse 3:07 . For all other explanations of such hints of sciences/ knowledges that Allah SWT gave us in Quran, we should be looking and concentrating on this Universe just as Allah SWT told us to do so.
All such researches should not be FOR Quran, because that will only invert the true purpose of Quran as brother Ali pointed out, but for the betterment of humanity and to discover how Allah SWT has provided us with so many tools to work on and how the angles (laws of nature) are made to serve the mankind ie, how they submit to us and hense discover HIs signs!

That is all for now. I hope I was able to get my point of concern through to the people who are in some serious and honest researching. Just don’t want another non Muslim to be yet another discoverer of perhaps…. “Nineteen Dimensions” !
Allah only guides those who wish to be guided And that’s my firm belief.

jazakAllah
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