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Re:Verse 15:71, Prophet Lot's daughters

 
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matinbhagat



Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Location: UK and Singapore

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:32 am    Post subject: Re:Verse 15:71, Prophet Lot's daughters Reply with quote

Salam,

I read this verse

15:71 Lot said, "Your wives,who are like my daughters,are better for you".

This translation makes a lot of sense,however i am not sure if there is the word wives in that verse?Also, another translation reads like this:

15:71 He said: "Here are my daughters if it is your intention."

My question is,I know the QXP translation sounds logical,unlike the other one where it seems like Lot is offering his daughters just like that,and it surely seems closer to the biblical version of the story. However, does the arabic have the word wives,or does the arabic used imply this in any way due to grammar or anything of that nature. I have not much knowledge on arabic,and hence want to verify this.Thank you for your time brothers and sisters.

Salam,
Jai
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salaam Aleikum dear Matin,

As you know, to understand the Quran, you must look at every verse that is connected to the subject. Thus QXP gives the translation that is created through the Quranic cross-reference.

Literally the Quran says in that verse:

15:71 He said: "Here are my daughters if it is your intention."

But as we know, a Prophet would never allow indency or be unjust, so he could never have presented his daughters to be raped.

2:213 Mankind were one single community (but selfishness divided them). So, God sent prophets as bearers of good news and warnings.

So how can we understand this verse? The question may arise, did Prophet Lot refer to the wives of the men of Soddom? Can we call a Prophet father of his nation?

The Quran says:

33:6 The prophet is closer to the believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers.

If the wives of the Prophet are called the mothers of the nation, then it is logical the Prophet Muhammed is the father of the nation. As God does not change His Sunna/Way of dealing with the Creation, then ALL Prophets were the fathers of their nations.

48:23 This is Godís law that has been in force since older times. And you will never find any change in Godís laws. [Sunnatillah = Godís laws in practice. Kalimatillah = Godís Word = Godís laws in theory 3:139, 17:77, 33:38, 33:62, 35:43, 40:85, 48:23]

And thus every male in the nation was his son, and every female was his daughter.

Now we have this knowledge, we can understand the verse bettter. The Prophet Lot pointed out to the men that they should get their physical needs fulfilled by their wives.

Their intention was to fulfill their needs, this is why Lot says, go to your wives, who are like my daughters, for this intention.

This is again a good example how tasreef/cross-reference works and the method of QXP.
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Ahmed Mateen



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salaam Arnold,

Quran always call prophets as brother of thier nation not the father. 26:161
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peace,

As the Quran calls the wives of the prophet mothers of the Nation, it is clear the Prophet was seen as a brother and as a father to the people.

But he was not their literal fathers, meaning, they were not dependent on the prophet.

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is Godís messenger and the Closing Seal of all prophets. And God, indeed, is Knower of all things.

Dr.Shabbir calls me his son, and my fiancee he calls his daughter. This of course refers to the affection and love and not to the biological bond or that I am dependent of him or have any rights on him.

The above tells us the exact same thing, telling us that we are not dependented on the Prophet, he is not our father and he does not take care of us, but he is our Prophet and the Message he brings does take care of us and does gives us rights.

These things must be understood in their contexts I believe, and not blown up out of proportions. Otherwise, how can the wives be called mothers, but the Prophet not a father?

The Quran contains no contradictions but our views do many times.
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Ahmed Mateen



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Their intention was to fulfill their needs, this is why Lot says, go to your wives, who are like my daughters, for this intention.

How do you know their intention was to fulfill their sexual needs and not anything else?

Quote:
The Quran contains no contradictions but our views do many times.

Exactly! So what do you think about 11:79?
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

11:79 shows they probably wanted to rob or enslave the guests of Lot, and not just for lust, as Lot interpretated it.
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Ahmed Mateen



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


15:71 and 11:79 clearly shows that Lot was talking about his daughters. Also there is nothing in quran which shows their intention was lust whatsoever.


That was there only concern! They forbade Lot to contact other people. But we find these baseless stories about them coming to Lot's guests for lust, only in Tafseer books (they copy pasted that story from other sources). Quran doesn't confirm those stories.
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abshoeb



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respected Br Ahmad Mateen Assalamalikum


7:81 You approach men with lust in preference to women. Nay, but you are a people crossing all bounds."


26:165 Of all the creatures in the Worlds, you approach males.

26:166 And leave those whom your Lord has created for you to be your mates. You are people who cross all bounds of decency.Ē

If you ponder these verses you will know that the inhabitants of Sodom in their lust for unnatural crime try to invade Lot Rasulullah house. Here is the point is that the people of the plain were shamelessly addicted to vice against nature. But Lot Rasulullah warning exasperated them. And Lot Rasulullah if he is not father figure to his people, then possibly how many daughters does he have?
Do you think whole city people have married his daughters?

Fee Amanillah
Ali Bin Ali Alharbi (Al Madina)
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