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89:6 and 105:1

 
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mrazik
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:25 am    Post subject: 89:6 and 105:1 Reply with quote

89:6 Alam tara kayfa faAAala rabbuka biAAadin

105:1 Alam tara kayfa faAAala rabbuka bi-as-habi alfeeli


QXPiv

89:6 Have you noted how your Lord dealt with ‘Aad? [They had refused to acknowledge the Truth and violated human rights. 7:65-72]

105:1 Are you not aware of how your Lord dealt with the Army of the Elephant?

Sir, Both the Ayahs in Arabic are exactly the same except the last words but your translation is “Have you noted how…..” and “Are you not aware of how…” the beginning is not exactly the same.

(But Yusuf Ali translated both the Ayahs as:

89:6 Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Ad (people)
105:1 Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Companion of the Elephants)

Please explain.

Thanks & Regards

Razi Khan
---------------------------------

Respected brother,

You have a good question.

VERY IMPORTANT: You know that the context of a verse is very important to derive the best meanings.

The People of 'Aad had passed away many centuries before the revelation of the Qur'an whereas the Elephant event was rather recent. It had occurred only in the year of the exalted prophet's birth, so, there were many eye witnesses living at the time. Hence, "Have you not seen?"

ALAM TARA KAIYFA literally means, "Have you not seen?"

Naturally, there was no living eye witness to 'Aad, during the noble life time of Muhammad (S). Hence, "Are you not aware?" The story of 'Aad was known to the Arabs of the prophet's (S) life time, like a folklore but none of those people had seen it.

I hope, I am clear here.
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Dr. Shabbir
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respected brother,

You have a good question.

VERY IMPORTANT: You know that the context of a verse is very important to derive the best meanings.

The People of 'Aad had passed away many centuries before the revelation of the Qur'an whereas the Elephant event was rather recent. It had occurred only in the year of the exalted prophet's birth, so, there were many eye witnesses living at the time. Hence, "Have you not seen?"

ALAM TARA KAIYFA literally means, "Have you not seen?"

Naturally, there was no living eye witness to 'Aad, during the noble life time of Muhammad (S). Hence, "Are you not aware?" The story of 'Aad was known to the Arabs of the prophet's (S) life time, like a folklore but none of those people had seen it.

I hope, I am clear here.
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mrazik
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sir, as you know these 2 verses are being used as strong evidence by one of the sect of Muslims (Barelavi) who believes that Prophet(S) is “Haazir O Naazir - Present and Witnessing” since if translated literally both the verses begins as “Have you not seen…..” to which you also agree and this “seen” word is very significant according to them due to the following reasons:

1. Allah uses these words “ALAM TARA KAIYFA……” at both the places and Isn’t Allah is the best user of words and best knower of the Context?

2. Allah says “Have you not seen…..” not “Have you not heard…” or “Have you not been told…” etc.

Sir, indeed “context of a verse is very important to derive the best meaning” but what should take the precedence:

1. Literal meaning or Best meaning.
2. Significance of word itself or the Context.

So please guide me in improving by understanding.

Thanks & Regards,

Razi Khan
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Dr. Shabbir
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, respected brother,

The literal meanings, the idiomatic meanings, the context and TASREEF, all four are equally important.

Let's consider this discussion complete here. I cannot make it more clear.

Thanks and may Allah bless you!
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UmeAimon



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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Location: UAE

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam all,

One thing I have noticed among different sections is that they find their differences from the Ayats which are Mutashabihats/Allegories and this is true for some people new to Deen. While the later are to be given some benefit of doubt those who have already made sections in Deen on basis of these Muteshabehats, cannot and are not sincere. Allah has clearly warned about them in 3:07 ( the reason) I keep reminding people this ayat as it gives a very clear and easy difference between those who are sincere and those with ill hearts while understanding the message.

What people do is make their assumptions/ belief and try to incorporate it into Quran by finding a single or two verses to quote and prove their point. The fact is their hearts are not sincere that’s all other wise there is no difficulty understanding the message.

For people who are trying to understand Quran I would like to say the main points are that if the belief/ understanding is wrong it will automatically contradict Quran in other places. So we must use common sense in order to understand the context.

Many times it is said, “Remember…..this and that happened!” now when written like this it can be taken as ” Do you remember…..this?” Or just ” Remember as keep in mind”.
Similarly if one says,” See, I told you!” or,” Don’t you see!” It cannot just mean literally “seeing” it could be “don’t you get my point?”. Yes in some cases it can be literal but there is no other way to tell unless explained in the text itself.

So what are the criteria to get the right message? For me it’s simple - keeping in mind all guidelines given by Allah SWT Himself. Some brother emailed a detailed version of these that I don’t have right now but for now,

     Allah’s Laws are Universal.

     The Book is self explanatory and is without contradictions. No ayat contradicts other rather reinforce the others (the orders usually become tougher unless Allah chooses to overrule them Himself through an ayat).

     No order or for that matter any Ayat once given can be contradicted or taken to be immaterial unless Allah says so Himself.

     The reason for the Book to be saved in this order was that it needed to be understood this way. The concept of some ayats came earlier or later, although not mentioned anywhere by Allah SWT in Quran itself, makes no sense.

     Meanings can easily be derived looking at the context where not clearly said as mostly in case of Muteshabehats/allegories and that should still not contradict any other verse.

     Concentrate on hukms/orders not muteshabehats/allegories.(any one who makes his point from allegories is not sincere) to avoid differences.

     And lastly always understand Quran as a whole.

Also note that Allah SWT has addressed to the prophet directly as “you” not anyone else as he was the one getting the revelations. In places where someone other then Prophet is addressed or included, it is mentioned in the text who is being addressed with the word “you” like…”oh you who have attained belief.”, or in other verses (before or after).

hope it helps

UmeAimon
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UmeAimon



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam again,

I'll help this time to give an example Smile

The concept of hazir o nazir is “Always present and witnessing or looking over!” Is it? That does not make any sense if you read the whole Quran (nothing but shirk!!!). In fact contradicts many ayats of Quran.

First remember Allah SWT wants us to believe about prophets

2:136, 3:84 (here we find we cannot make distinction among any prophets)

Although Allah gave them ranks and different gifts we cannot give any one any distinction!!

Then what about Prophets, Mohammad SW or any other, where does Allah say they’re living all the time…no where!

See Surah “Anbiyaa” specially verses 21:07 and 21:08 (Allah swt is saying to Prophet SW” …before you”) In fact it's better you read the whole Surah. All prophets were humans, lived like human and died like humans. There are other ayats confirming that.

About the law of death I think you already know. Every living being must die and the veil between the dead and the living(the two different worlds) so neither of them know whats happening at the other side. It's universal and same for all as per Quran.

Also for the “present and witnessing”, see ayat 3:44, in which Allah tells about the time the priests were deciding the fate of Hazarat Marayam SW and is saying to the Prophet Mohammad SW that it’s Allah who reveals these accounts to him as he was not there to witness any of that. (What happened to hazir a nazir there? Was he on some other site that time?


jazakAllah

UmeAimon
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Dr. Shabbir
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post, Sister UmmeAimon, Ma-Sha-Allah!
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