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A Continued Call: لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ

 
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bkanwar2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: A Continued Call: لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ Reply with quote

bkanwar2
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Posts: 115



A Continued Call: لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ
« on: Today at 08:04:20 PM » Quote Modify

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Any body willing to analyse this one لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ from Morphological and Grammatical prospective. For a start, it is usually considered a derivative of root تقي. Thanks in advance.
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UmeAimon



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 141
Location: UAE

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam every one and happy belated EID,

Brother Badar while I sincerely hope all your effort bear some fruit, I am curious to know, how did you understand this verse?

54:17
Walaqad yassernalQuraana lizzakrae fahal min muddakiri

The reason why I need to know this... I’ll tell you when I know your understanding about this verse.

Thank you and jazakAllah

UmeAimon
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bkanwar2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister, thanks for the reply. I do not at this time know what exactly is the meaning of this verse. But with preliminary effort, I can tell you this much that the conventional understanding of this verse is not correct either. It will take me sometime but once I am reasonably comfertable I will post the meaning of this verse.
Conventional understandings being "And indeed, We have made the Qur'an easy to understand. Then, is there any who will learn?"

Badar
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bkanwar2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister UmeAimon, here is my understanding of 54:17. It still needs some final touches.

وَلَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِن مُّدَّكِرٍ

And verily we shall rejoice, be glad and happy. This is the system I have firmly and ultimately established. Let yourselves turn against this pleasant, delightful and desirable system. I will continue the respite and leave you alone for a while. Eventually, I shall, after your flight, cause you to return back to it.

Badar
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bkanwar2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erik M
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Posts: 15

Re: A Continued Call: لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 12:08:27 AM » Quote

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Salaam Badar,

From my current knowledge:

لِلْمُتَّقِينَ = لِ الْمُتَّقِينَ

ل = preposition indicating that the action/thing is aimed to/for whatever word that follows.

ال = the definite article of Arabic. When following ل, the alif is dropped.

مُتَّق = active participle in form VIII of the root وقي, a so called doubly weak verb (أَلْفِعْلُ الْمُعْتَلُّ بِحَرْفَيْنِ).
The normal construction of active participle in form VIII would be مُفْتَعِلٌ (for the root فعل). However, in verbs where the initial root (R1) is و, the و and the ت merges into a doubled تّ. This is consistent through form VIII, not only for the active participle. Also, if the final root (R3) is ي, it’s dropped when constructing the active participle. This is consistent through all forms.

ينَ = plural ending in genitive (since following preposition ل).

That’s as far as grammar and morphology goes I think… There are free grammar books available at StudyQuran (www.studyquran.co.uk), I’m sure they can be of help.

Good luck with your studies!

Peace!

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:09:45 AM by Erik M » Report to moderator Logged



bkanwar2
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Posts: 120
Re: A Continued Call: لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 04:39:41 PM » Quote

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Erik, thanks for trying. But if you look at Quranic structure I have posted, it is out of 2:2, as it is. The first ل, has تشديد implying doubling of ل meaning binding of two words and hence two Lams, followed by الف. with gezm on it indicating end of word/pharse.

Badar


Erik M
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Gender:
Posts: 15

Re: A Continued Call: لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ
« Reply #6 on: Today at 02:00:35 PM » Quote

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Quote from: bkanwar2 on Yesterday at 04:39:41 PM
Erik, thanks for trying. But if you look at Quranic structure I have posted, it is out of 2:2, as it is. The first ل, has تشديد implying doubling of ل meaning binding of two words and hence two Lams, followed by الف. with gezm on it indicating end of word/pharse.

Badar


Yes, true, I missed that. I thought your focus was on the word muttaqiin.

Peace

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bkanwar2
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Posts: 120

Re: A Continued Call: لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ
« Reply #7 on: Today at 03:01:00 PM » Quote Modify

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Thanks Eric, the point I am trying to make is that we approach the text of Alkitab with preconcieved notions and meanings. Hence, over look simple and obvious facts relating to writting of script. Therefore, I keep calling this Arabic as a lost language. Furthermore, after Miim there are TWO Taas suggested by a teshdeed. It is not a word but actuallly a complete sentence written together with signs of seperation and binding of the words i.e., gezm and teshdeed.

Badar
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bkanwar2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am trying to convience myself. The reason native speakers of Arabic are unable to understand real meaning of Alkitab: is not because they do not know the language. Instead it is because of preconcieved meanings and lack of understanding of this fact as it is. In my native language or even in English, which I am now reasonably well versed. If do not understand a word's meaning. Instead of looking it up in a dictionary or grammar book, I persume the meaning of word that fits the context of understanding. However, this is always a fatal mistake as upon checking the meanings of this word, meaning of whole sentence changes. Same is true with AlKitab. Since I am trying to learn the language of Alkitab. I refer to a Lexicon and a grammar book at every step and not take the supposed meanings.

Here is the brak down of لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ, now I think natives will know the meaning without having to resort to a dictionary.

تَقِيْنَ =تقي & نَ, لِ لاْ موِتَ تَقِيْنَ

Badar
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bkanwar2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those, like myself, whose native language is not Arabic and use English as language of acquiring knowledge. An understanding of لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ. "Let not be amongst, unable to guard from being senseless, deprived of intellectual faculty, full of sorrow & grief, stagnant, sleepy or drunk and life less" (Guard from موِتَ includes all meaning rendered after guard).
Badar
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Dr. Shabbir
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respected Dr. Badar,

Many friends are asking how you derive the meanings of verses in a brand new form.

I think, giving them the key to unlock the Arabic text as you do, might be of much help.
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Wassalam,
SA
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bkanwar2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Respected Dr. Shabbir Shaib, at your suggestion I have started working on detailed linguistic explanation of one verse that is

2:2 ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ

Once I complete it. I will share with you all.

Badar
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Arnold Yasin Mol
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salaam dear Badar,

I have been reviewing your ideas for a while, and hadn't commented yet as I was not always sure how your methods worked.

As a humble advice, I would ask you to first study Arabic itself by a course, not just by books. In this way you can build up experience in the language. Then it will be easier for you not only to see where your new approaches could work, but you can also explain better how it differs from traditional understandings.

Yes, Arabic is flexible and there are many neglected and buried potentials, but first you really must study the basics better before you can move on. For one, nobody will take you serious if you cannot even handle the basic Arabic, and two, there is this new big myth that modern Arabic is so different from 6th century Arabic. This is only partially true. What the problem is that in Islam a religious language has been created which is used to understand the Qur'an.

The Arabs would understand the Qur'an much better if they just used their modern Arabic understanding instead of switching into the religious dogma version of Arabic when reading the Qur'an.

As I had commented before:

"Also Modern Arabic is very wide and flexible and reflects the Qur'anic Arabic more closely then Classical Arabic. What the problem here is that modern Arabs do not see the multiple meanings of the Qur'anic language, but follow dogma. Sunni and Shia dogma has fixed the meanings of the Qur'an for them, and they ignore real meanings of words, even though they use the real meanings of Arabic words in their every day language! That is the problem with Arabic language today. For them there is normal used Arabic, one that reflects the Qur'anic Arabic on many points, and religious language that was developed in the Middle ages.

The Arabic of the Qur'an represents the streetlanguage of Arabia. It was a language used by everyone, and was thus also very flexible with meaning and grammar and the way how it assimilated words from other languages they came in contact with.

For example Sirat from Sirat Almustaqeem in Surah 1 comes from the Latin Stratta from where we in English got the word street. As the Romans build very efficient and well protected roads, the word Sirat does not only refer to a straight path, but one that takes you directly to your goal, is safe, and was made to protect the empire and trade. Thus Sirat alMustaqeem is the Straight Path of the actions of those that stand up(mustaqeem=qama=to stand up) to that protect others (meaning of Amina/Mumin), develops equal wealth and progress.

The Arabic language was not an elite language, this is also the reason why when the Persians were conquered. They had to record the Arabic language to understand it. This is why the Persians were the first to create books on Arabic grammar and meaning.

As Persian elite and their language started to influence Islamic rule, it also influenced Arabic meanings and words. The Persian theology was assimilated into Islam and history and has created the Sunni theology of today. Shia theology was more a development were Islam was assimilated into Persian Theology.

"HAR Gibb made an acute observation, when he said that the issue at stake was whether the new Islamic society was to become a re-embodiment of the old Perso-Aramaean culture into the Arabic and Islamic elements would be absorbed, or a culture in which the Perso-Aramaean contributions would be subordianted to the Arab tradition and the Islamic values. In the case of Persia there was no question, but that the former view should previal, while in the Arabic-speaking parts of the caliphate it would seem the later triumphed." (The Heritage of Persia by prof. Richard N. Frye 2004 reprint p. 277-279)

Also Christian and Jewish theology and their definitions were assimilated into Islamic theology. Christian, Jewish and Persian doctrines influenced Qur'an interpretation and thus also how words were understood. This is how Classical Arabic was developed, and thus this is not the Qur'anic Arabic language. Classical Arabic has many different definitions and is far more rigid in grammar.

In this way the original Arabic language was corrupted and Islam became a super-religion, a summary of all major religions into 1, instead of a universal way of life.

This is the case today. The simple flexible Arabic street language of the 6th century had been replaced by a more official version where many important definitions were changed to suit certain dogma's. This is the created religious language used to keep people prisoner in dogma."


http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597559.0
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bkanwar2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respected Dr. Shabbir and very Dear brother Arnold. At your suggestion and many others. I humbly submit following. Please read it and also verify it from pages below. Brother Arnold, I exactly know what your are saying. However, what you say is only part of the problem. Hope this write up might help to explain other parts of the puzle as well.

Finally my utmost gratitude to my friend Dr. Khalid Naseer for valuable suggestions in this write up.


Summarizing the methodology of understanding and translating Alkitab:

I use widely accepted and respected English translations of Classic Arabic Lexicon and Grammar books. These include

1. An Arabic English Lexicon By Edward William Lane.(an authentic work of translation based on respected Arabic lexicons such as Taj al-Arus, تاج العروس and many others).

2. A Grammar of the Arabic Language by W. Wright (Based on Arabic authentic Grammar books cited in preface of his Book)

3. A Grammar of Classical Arabic Third Revised Edition Wolfdietrich Fischer; Translated from the German by Jonathan Rodgers

From these books I understood following. In Arabic script writing the implications of some of the terms and signs used are as follows.

1. A Gezm is used to indicate declinable words attached to other words.
2. A Sukoon is to indicate a Non Mutherick consonant in a non-declinable word.
3. A Teshdeed indicates binding of two words, one ending and other beginning with the same consonant.

The implications of above terms on the Arabic written script are that words can be so to call, zipped together. Hence what are commonly understood to be words: are not only separated by space between them in the Alkitab. In addition word separation is indicated by above three signs. Hence, one needs to unzip them based on the above marks. This unzipping allows one to realize what words are written together. Once this is achieved it makes lexical and grammatical understanding much easier. Now let us illustrate this with an example.

2:2 ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ

ذَلِكَ = ذا a demonstrative pronoun, plus لِ, a demonstrative syllable, plus كَ , a second person pronominal suffix.

ذَلِكَ commonly is translated as “this or that”. However, Arabic has another word called هذا with same meaning. Curiously enough Alkitab has preferred former over later. At a closer look it appears both are derived from demonstrative pronoun ذا. When ها is added to ذا it indicated closeness in time whereas ذا denotes to both close and distant i.e., past and future as well present. Hence ذَلِكَ can not be just translated “as this or that”. But real meanings are “this is eternal” ( such a this which incorporates now and distant) plus لِ means “to or for” with emphasis plus كَ a second person pronoun meaning you. Now the meaning becomes “this is eternal and surely for you”.

الْكِتَابُ = الْ definite article The plus كِتَابُ A written book of law

لا=absolute negation means not

ريْبَ = undoubtedly
فِيهِ = فِي plus ه= فَوَهٌ = the mouth its genitive is في and personal pronoun ه makes a phrase فِيهِ= from my mouth

هُدًى = guide yourself to it

لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ = لِ لا موتَ تقِي نَ

On first ل there is تشد يد with kesr suggesting binding of two words that is لِ لا followed by الف with gezm indicating end of word. Then there is م with damma could be used in place of و , followed by a ت with تشد يد. This suggests two ت from of binding two words one ending and other beginning with ت. In this case موتَ and تقِي. Now finally تقِي has gezm on ي suggesting separation from نَ.

لِ = let
لا= Absolute negation “Not”
موت= senseless, deprived on intellectual faculty, full of sorrow and grief, stagnant sleepy or drunk and lifeless.
تقي= able to guard
نَ= plural suffixed pronoun

Now the translation should read as following

“This is an eternally written book of law for you. Undoubtedly from my mouth. So guide yourselves through it. Let not be senseless, deprived of intellectual faculty, full of sorrow & grief, stagnant, sleepy or drunk and lifeless (all meanings of موت.). Enable yourself to guard against it ([b]موت)”. [/b]

1 Jezm and Sukoon=http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume2/00000057.pdf
2. Teshdeed= http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000242.pdf
3. Thal Alif http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000113.pdf
4. Alif Lam= http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000111.pdf
5. Kaf Ta Ba= http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000118.pdf
6. Lam Alif= http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000260.pdf
7. Ra Ya Ba= http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000363.pdf
8. Fa Waw ha= http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume6/00000248.pdf
9. ha Dal Ya http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000296.pdf
10. Miim Waw Ta= http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000269.pdf
11. Ta-Qaf Ya= http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000346.pdf
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bkanwar2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some technical reasons, when I posted my above post from MS Word. This forums changes the format. In addition it does not allow the supersript here. Furthermore, order of Arabic words changes. After struggling for some time to fix it I posted it any way. However, I was able to manage at Free-minds.org forum, better. I am posting a link here for better reading and understanding. Sorry Smile

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597575.0

Badar
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