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Rape

 
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Dr. Shabbir
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Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 1331
Location: Florida, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Rape Reply with quote

RAPE

The Mullas and their blind followers almost invariably assert that the Qur’an prescribes no punishment for the rapist. Doesn’t the Qur’an claim to be a well perfected Book and that it covers all things that were necessary to be revealed. INNATTIBIYAANA LAKULLA SHAYI!
The Qur'an does not use ZINA-BIL-JABR (Forced sex). Even bothering women on the street carries grievous punishment! The term used here derives from RAJF = Creating alarm = Bothering = Frightening = Harassing = Causing to tremble = Inciting fear.
The punishment for men creating RAJF among women on the street could vary from exile to slaying depending on the extent and habit of RAJF caused by the accused.

33:60 Thus it is. If the hypocrites and they in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the City do not cease (to cause social disruption and malign or molest women), We indeed give you the authoritative mastery over them. Then they will be your neighbors no more than a short while.
33:61 Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain one and all. (That is the penalty for men who keep annoying innocent women on the street, assault them or rape them).

33:62 That was the Way of Allah among those who lived before. And never will you find any change in Allah’s Way. (The Divine Laws in the Universe never change, and the Law of Requital never fails to requite).
In addition, rape being the most heinous crime of violence stands aside with creating corruption, disrupting the society and committing FASAD in the earth.

5:33 The just punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and endeavor to commit bloody crimes on earth, is that they be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet severed on alternate sides, or be entirely banished from the land. Such is their disgrace in this world, and an awful suffering awaits them in the Hereafter. [Banishing from the land indicates exile or imprisonment for life]
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Fahad Khan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: Rape Reply with quote

Salaam Alaikum.

Rajf is not same as fasaad so its punishment should not be confused with that of fasaad. Creating rajf among believing men and women carries a death penalty only. imho.

I have two questions:

1) would you say that munafiq men "bothering" momin men should be killed.

2) would you say women like Al-Aziz's wife who attempted to rape or seduce and tore the clothes of a momin man like Yousef should be killed?

Thanks.

Fahad.


Dr. Shabbir wrote:
RAPE

The Mullas and their blind followers almost invariably assert that the Qur�an prescribes no punishment for the rapist. Doesn�t the Qur�an claim to be a well perfected Book and that it covers all things that were necessary to be revealed. INNATTIBIYAANA LAKULLA SHAYI!
The Qur'an does not use ZINA-BIL-JABR (Forced sex). Even bothering women on the street carries grievous punishment! The term used here derives from RAJF = Creating alarm = Bothering = Frightening = Harassing = Causing to tremble = Inciting fear.
The punishment for men creating RAJF among women on the street could vary from exile to slaying depending on the extent and habit of RAJF caused by the accused.

33:60 Thus it is. If the hypocrites and they in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the City do not cease (to cause social disruption and malign or molest women), We indeed give you the authoritative mastery over them. Then they will be your neighbors no more than a short while.
33:61 Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain one and all. (That is the penalty for men who keep annoying innocent women on the street, assault them or rape them).

33:62 That was the Way of Allah among those who lived before. And never will you find any change in Allah�s Way. (The Divine Laws in the Universe never change, and the Law of Requital never fails to requite).
In addition, rape being the most heinous crime of violence stands aside with creating corruption, disrupting the society and committing FASAD in the earth.

5:33 The just punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and endeavor to commit bloody crimes on earth, is that they be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet severed on alternate sides, or be entirely banished from the land. Such is their disgrace in this world, and an awful suffering awaits them in the Hereafter. [Banishing from the land indicates exile or imprisonment for life]
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Fahad Khan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: Rape Reply with quote

Salaam Alaikum.

Rajf is not same as fasaad so its punishment should not be confused with that of fasaad. Creating rajf among believing men and women carries a death penalty only. imho.

I have two questions:

1) would you say that munafiq men "bothering" momin men should be killed.

2) would you say women like Al-Aziz's wife who attempted to rape or seduce and tore the clothes of a momin man like Yousef should be killed?

Thanks.

Fahad.


Dr. Shabbir wrote:
RAPE

The Mullas and their blind followers almost invariably assert that the Qur�an prescribes no punishment for the rapist. Doesn�t the Qur�an claim to be a well perfected Book and that it covers all things that were necessary to be revealed. INNATTIBIYAANA LAKULLA SHAYI!
The Qur'an does not use ZINA-BIL-JABR (Forced sex). Even bothering women on the street carries grievous punishment! The term used here derives from RAJF = Creating alarm = Bothering = Frightening = Harassing = Causing to tremble = Inciting fear.
The punishment for men creating RAJF among women on the street could vary from exile to slaying depending on the extent and habit of RAJF caused by the accused.

33:60 Thus it is. If the hypocrites and they in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the City do not cease (to cause social disruption and malign or molest women), We indeed give you the authoritative mastery over them. Then they will be your neighbors no more than a short while.
33:61 Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain one and all. (That is the penalty for men who keep annoying innocent women on the street, assault them or rape them).

33:62 That was the Way of Allah among those who lived before. And never will you find any change in Allah�s Way. (The Divine Laws in the Universe never change, and the Law of Requital never fails to requite).
In addition, rape being the most heinous crime of violence stands aside with creating corruption, disrupting the society and committing FASAD in the earth.

5:33 The just punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and endeavor to commit bloody crimes on earth, is that they be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet severed on alternate sides, or be entirely banished from the land. Such is their disgrace in this world, and an awful suffering awaits them in the Hereafter. [Banishing from the land indicates exile or imprisonment for life]
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Dr. Shabbir
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Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 1331
Location: Florida, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear brother Fahad Khan,

You have posted the same question five times!

Muslims must accept without if and or but when the Qur'an ordains something clearly.

Here is the punishment again:

33:58 And those who malign the believing men and the believing women undeservedly, they bear the guilt of slander and manifestly drag down their own humanity.

33:59 O Prophet! Tell your wives, your daughters, and women of the believers that they should draw their outer garments around their body (when in public). This is easy and proper, so that they may be recognized and not be bothered. God is Absolver of imperfections, Merciful.

[24:31. Jalbab = Outer garment = Overcoat = Lengthened dress = Chadar = Shawl = Loose-fitting garment = Modest dress. What Body Parts Women Can Show In Public: Face, hands and forearms, heads, feet and ankles as during ablution. See 5:6. A Hadith that agrees with the Qur’an: Ibn Umar said that during the times of Rasoolullah (S) men and women used to do Wudhu together. – Bukhari, Kitabil Wudhu] RAPE: Most people think that the Qur’an prescribes no punishment for the rapist. But the Qur’an claim to be a well perfected Book and that it covers all things that were necessary to be revealed (Innatibitaana lakulla shayi). The Qur’an does not use Zina-bil-Jabr (Forced sex). But, even bothering women carries grievous punishment! The term used in 33:60 derives from Rajf = Creating alarm = Bothering = Frightening = Harassing = Causing to tremble = Inciting fear. The punishment for men creating Rajf among women could vary from exile to slaying depending on the extent of Rajf caused by the accused]

33:60 Thus it is: If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is disease, and those who create turmoil in the City do not desist (from maligning women), We shall give you control over them (O Prophet). And then they will be your neighbors for no more than a short while.

33:61 Accursed, they shall be seized wherever found and slain one and all. [This is the penalty for men who keep annoying innocent women on the street, assault them or rape them]

33:62 That was the way of God among those who lived before. And never will you find any change in God’s way.

[The Divine laws never change, and the Law of Requital never fails to requite]
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Fahad Khan
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Br Shabbir.

Dr. Shabbir wrote:
Dear brother Fahad Khan,

You have posted the same question five times!


I am sorry for that. I was receiving error messages while posting, i thought my message wasn't posted.

Quote:
Muslims must accept without if and or but when the Qur'an ordains something clearly.


Indeed. But I don't remember saying any if or but. I just asked two simple questions that you avoided answering. And i wasn't questioning the authority of the Quran but your interpretation.

I asked the questions because ...

if you read the context, the verse(33/58) is talking about maligning of both believing men and believing women, but in your parenthesis, you only talk about women being victims.

I quote you :

Quote:
"The Qur’an does not use Zina-bil-Jabr (Forced sex). But, even bothering women carries grievous punishment!..."

"...The punishment for men creating Rajf among women could vary from exile to slaying depending on the extent of Rajf caused by the accused"

"Thus it is: If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is disease, and those who create turmoil in the City do not desist (from maligning women),"

"Accursed, they shall be seized wherever found and slain one and all. [This is the penalty for men who keep annoying innocent women on the street, assault them or rape them]"


You make no mention of men being victims, but only perpetrators while the only explicit mention of (attempted)rape in the Quran is that of a man BY a woman. Therefore what about the slandering and harassment of believing men by other men and women?

Hence my questions:

1) would you say that munafiq men "bothering" momin men should be killed.

2) would you say women like Al-Aziz's wife who attempted to rape or seduce and tore the clothes of a momin man like Yousef should be killed?

Thanks.
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noman waseem



Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 64
Location: New Jersey, US

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say, seeing the lack of response, it is interesting to note that in a state implementing the Quran as its constitution the issue of answering the questions raised by Mr. Khan would be crucial to presenting a stable world view to the citizens of an Islamic state. In other words, you can't just decide something like this at the last second before judgment on a case-by-case basis; there has to be some written by-laws that supplement the Quranic laws, much like the way by-laws supplement the US constitution.

Anyway, its just interesting to wonder is there really so much subjectivity in the Quran that questions so fundamental to the functioning of society don't even receive a suggested answer after several months? And pardon me if it hasn't received an answer simply due to lack of resources.

But my suggested answer is that it seems rather obvious from many verses in the Quran that humans will be judged on equal standards; where physiological differences are irrelevant both men and women are to be judged on equal standards. So if there is a punishment for the crime of harassment/rape of women by men, then all combinations of men and women in the above scenario should yield the same punishment. The only real argument I can imagine is if in fact physiological differences are irrelevant in such a situation...an argument which on the surface of course appears to be a very ridiculous argument to try and make.

Certainly the physiological differences greatly affect the frequencies of such crimes between the sexes, but I doubt anyone would argue that its due to a mental/moral predisposition of men rather than their actual physical stature and its related social baggage. And since its unlikely that the difference in frequencies in such crimes are due to the types of predispositions mentioned above, both sexes should be JUDGED on equal footing even if the crimes themselves may reliably occur at different frequencies between them.

In other words, if the physical stature of men and women were reversed along with its associated social baggage, I would wager a flip in the statistics of these crimes between the sexes.
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