Our Beacon

[Arnold Yasin Mol]

[abshoeb]

Assalamalikum wa Rahmathullahi wa Thaala wa Barkathuhu
Respected Br Arnold


Brother you become driving force to this forum after Br Dr Shabbir Ahmad
Alhamdulillah. BY using your perceptual and conceptual faculties to undderstand people what is actually obidience to prophet as per Quraan. This is the best presntation. And it is no doubt Allah bestows wisdom according to His Laws . And whoever is granted wisdom has indeed been granted a great wealth.


2:269. He bestows wisdom according to His Laws (12:22, 28:14). And whoever is granted wisdom has indeed been granted a great wealth. And only people of understanding remain mindful of what they learn. (Making good use of their perceptual and conceptual faculties helps people attain wisdom 17:36).

Fee Amanillah
Ali Bin Ali Alharbi (Al Madina)

[Arnold Yasin Mol]

Aleikum Salaam my dear brother,

Thank you for your encouragements, I will always do my best for Islam inshAllah.

May Allah keep increasing us in knowledge.

The above presentation is only the first draft, I hope InshAllah to perfect it over time. Many books have been written on this subject, but we need a short presentation on the subject that will explain it all in short simple terms, as what I had intended above.

[tammyswofford]

Dearest Arnold,
The shortened version of your post is as follows:

* There is the necessity of the state because of the need for governance, amr and nahy. al-amr bi 'l-ma-'ruf wa n' nahy 'an al-munkar , so the state takes up where the family unit leaves off...

*The individual nass of the Qur'an are zahir and the body of law of Islam is self-contained. But it is further subdivided into categories such as obligatory or allowed acts. On that which the Prophet was silent, it is considered mubah. But the nusus are indisputable.

*Islam limits free will in ways not understood by the West. Free will, is subjugated to Divine Will and the purpose of an Islamic State is not to allow for the self-determination of the individual, rather commonality of good of the state.

*Regarding the whole issue of alcohol, there was a progression of thought regarding that issue in the Qur'an. Some other issues, such as smoking, are addressed from Qiyaas, such as the one given in the 17th century by the Ottoman empire, after tobacco reached the region. The ruling was based on a Hadith regarding not eating garlic and then showing up at the masjid with the offensive smell. Smokers breath, fell in the same category. So while the qiyaa fell under a category of disliked or Makrooh, it later became Haraam based on An-Nisaa 29, when it was found that smoking causes lung cancer.

Informative post, Respected Arnold. smile

Tammy Swofford

[Yosemite]

Salaam all.

Hadith and hadiths considered from God are dangerous. I was talking with a friend at school, i was saying to him that there is no stoning in Islam. I simply said "but there is no verse on this in the Quran, only a verse saying to give flogs to those commiting zina" he said "zina in this verse do not imply adulter, but only fornication" When i said to him "zina can mean both, in many traductions zina have been translated into alduter and fornication" he answered "in hadith is told that the prophet was stoning people for adulter" and "hey if you wanna follow unkown people, do so, i don't care if you go astray by following some strange imam"

Well at this moment, i was like, what the fork!? Why immediatly following people and what they say? I only read what the man is saying, then go check the information where i can.

Ok so before the prophet peace be upon him received the revelations, the laws used where not divine. When the prophet (peace be upon him) received the Quran, then he used it to clear the problemes.

The Quran is unchanged and proptected by God. 15:9
In the Quran there is no death penalty for adulter or fornication.
It is instead written that you have to give flogs to the ones commiting zina. 024.002

And there are verses (from 069.044 to 069.046) That says that if the messenger was about to invent saying in the name of God, then He would

069.044
YUSUFALI: And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name,
PICKTHAL: And if he had invented false sayings concerning Us,
SHAKIR: And if he had fabricated against Us some of the sayings,

069.045
YUSUFALI: We should certainly seize him by his right hand,
PICKTHAL: We assuredly had taken him by the right hand
SHAKIR: We would certainly have seized him by the right hand,

069.046
YUSUFALI: And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart:
PICKTHAL: And then severed his life-artery,
SHAKIR: Then We would certainly have cut off his aorta.


It says messenger. Actually it talks about the prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) ? I don't want to assume things if i might be wrong.

So now we see that there is no verse for stonning in Quran. But in hadith only.

We see in the arcticle of Arnold that the Prophet peace be upon him was told to clear the problemes using the Quran.

Then how come he could stone people to death if there is no such law in the Quran? More, death penalty is very important. We have a verse saying to give flogs to commiters of zina. Receiving flogs is less important than being judged to death penalty. How come there is a law saying to give flogs to zina-ers, while there is no verse saying to kill them?

[tammyswofford]

I am at work, so do not have access to notes. But I believe a woman cannot be accused of zina without four witnesses. So the criteria to bring such an accusation, is a very strong one. In other words, consider very carefully, bringing such accusation. If you look at the story of Maryam, the mother of Isa, there was an accusation brought against her by the community. (Qur'an 19:2 If you read, the accusation was not even supportable, because the crowd alluded to her own honorable family and it sounds like there was a whisper going through the community, in other words, a rumor. If you read ayat 30, Isa spoke and in ayat 32 he blessed his mother.

Zina is forbidden, and the actual wording, is to block all paths that lead to it. But paths that would lead to accusation without merit, should also be blocked.

[Arnold Yasin Mol]

Peace Yosemite,

I can understand your frustration and you will start to see many more nonsense attributed to the Prophet. The Prophet is called the Mercy for the world, not the tyrant they made of him.

Also I may advice you not to use translations has Shakir, Yusuf Ali and Pickthal as they all used Hadith and a very limited view to translate the Quran. This is also why we do not allow them on this forum.

Just study hard on the Quran and Islamic History, how Hadiths were compiled and why, and you will see more and more how Islam got distorted by the clergy and kings.

[tammyswofford]

For some reason the last post reads with a "2" and a smiley face instead of ayat 28 from Maryam. Not sure how I managed that! smile

Back to the topic at hand of zina, the scholars now grapple with the issue of DNA and the ability for a paternity test to bring accusation by millions of biological witnesses! Yet Islam teaches us that man is the bed-owner, and as such the husband is to claim that which springs from his wife's womb as being his own. This is for the protection of the family name and heritage.

As such Prophet Muhammad also stated that those adopted were not to be called "sons" rather your brother. Once again, the sanctity of the husband or the bedowner, to claim his offspring and secure his lineage. Just my thoughts!

R/Tammy Swofford

[UmeAimon]

Asalam o Elikom all,

Nice to see you Tammy. Just wanted to add my thoughts here.
I hear much about lineage and stuff but can't help wondering if so much emphasis is put on lineage or family name in Islam then what happened to lineage of prophet Mohammad pbuh?
AND I cannot help thinking everytime I read "Isa son of Marry" in Quran


Maybe it's not about lineage or family name as these are for the purpose of identification only according to Quran. The adopted son thing is, but just minor detail of what blood relationships really are on which other conditions, like mariages and inheritance are put! The same is true for the adopted daughter.

jazakAllah